R.E.M.
Those three little letters and equivalent portions of punctuation pack so much in their simplicity.
Whether its bassist Mike Mills setting that slow, crawling groove at the outset of "Man on the Moon," Peter Buck smoking through a riff with a Rickenbacker slung across his back, or Michael Stipe flailing frantically in the "Losing My Religion" video, there are plenty of images that rush to mind.
But as the band winds toward the end of its third decade, there's more than just warm rock fuzzies to pass around. R.E.M. wrote the playbook for maintaining indie cred without selling out. The group is admirable for its willingness to do what it wants, on its terms. The trio has experimented more than a college freshman at a frat party, all the while maintaining a signature thread throughout all of that material.
The latest evolution is its 14th studio album, Accelerate, which hit shelves in April. Critics hail it as a "comeback," but the band never went anywhere. Regardless, R.E.M. hasn't rocked this hard since Bill Clinton was president — the first time.
Earlier this month, yours truly at For Those About to Rock had a chance to talk to bassist Mike Mills about Accelerate, the records since drummer Bill Berry left the group in 1997, what R.E.M. has left to prove and more. The band's tour for said album kicks off today in British Columbia, Canada, but the buses stop for a pair of shows May 31 and June 1 at the Greek Theater in Berkeley. Modest Mouse and The National will open.
Excerpts of this interview appeared in the May 23 edition of the Daily Republic.
Nick DeCicco: I'm curious about the process leading into Accelerate (cover at left). You were the one who suggested you guys work out the songs live, right?
Mike Mills: Yeah, I wanted to get that feeling you get from the live crowd. It helps you edit and arrange.
ND: Was that the first time you guys had done that since Bill Berry left?
MM: Well, we've never really done a working rehearsal before. Back in the '80s, we were touring so much … that you would work out the new songs on the road before you recorded them. And then in the '90s and the '00s, that turned around a little bit to where you record the songs before you play them live. I would realize as I was playing the songs live, "Man, I wish I'd recorded the way I'm playing it now." So I thought we could probably achieve that by playing the songs live before we finally finished recording them.
ND: A lot of the songs for New Adventures in Hi-Fi were written, performed and recorded while you were on tour for Monster, right?
MM: Well, ever since we started working on New Adventures, which was during the Monster tour, we've always been working on new songs in soundcheck. But that's not quite the same because usually Michael [Stipe] doesn't have the lyrics at that point, so I can't work on background vocals and there's no real crowd in there at soundcheck, so it's not quite the same as what the working rehearsal provided for us.
ND: How big a factor is crowd reaction? You guys played these Accelerate tunes for the crowd in Dublin last year. How does that shape the way you guys look at a song?
MM: It's hard to say. It's not just simply the crowd reaction. It's how the song feels while you're playing it and that feeling changes when you've got 800 people in front of you. It's kind of hard to pin down, but it's more than how they respond to it.
ND: And it's new to them, too, so it's not like they're going to be jumping up and down and singing along with it.
MM: Right, but at the same time, they do know why they're there. They know they're not going to get the hits. They're there to hear the new stuff and it's just a great collaborative process at that point.
ND: A song like "Supernatural Superserious" changed a lot from the time you guys played it in Dublin to the time it made it to Accelerate. (See YouTube performance of the early "Supernatural Superserious," then known as "Disguised," from Dublin 2007 show.)
MM: Well, yeah, I re-wrote the chorus. It didn't technically have — well, we found out that it needed another chorus is one thing we learned at the live rehearsal.
ND: Could you tell me a little bit about how the reaction to 2004's Around the Sun (cover at right) shaped the way you guys entered this process?
MM: It wasn't so much the reaction to it as much as what we knew we needed to do. The problem with Around the Sun was we tried to do too much. We tried to make a greatest hits record and then do a tour and then come back and finish Around the Sun and that was really unfair to the record. The songs on that record are really good, but the recording process became unfocused and therefore they weren't as fully realized as they could've been.
ND: OK.
MM: And we just wanted to make sure that this record was nothing but focus. And that's what we've done is really just zero in on the entire process.
ND: I've read some interviews too, where, Michael Stipe in particular, talks about how the band is communicating a lot more.
MM: Well, that's essential. That also suffered toward the end of Around the Sun, which contributed to the unfocused quality of it. We realized, as with any long-term relationship, you need to maintain communication. That's important in any aspect of life, really.
ND: Does Bill Berry's departure still affect the band? Did it take you this long to figure out how to make a rock record like this since his departure?
MM: Well, we weren't really worried about making a rock record. When Bill left the band, we chose to see it as an opportunity to throw all the rules out of the window and record a record in a new way. And so, in that sense, Up was very experimental because we felt we could try anything and since we didn't really have a drummer per say, we used a lot of machines and just decided to have fun with this new opportunity.
ND: That's a real liberating sort of atmosphere.
MM: That's how we chose to see it. It could've gone either way, but we chose to see it that way. Reveal, I think, is our most underrated record. I think it's absolutely beautiful. I think that was us feeling pretty good about ourselves and trying to make a positive summery kind of record. And then we got to Around the Sun, which, as I say, has great songs, but we took too long to make it.
ND: I think some people didn't really take the time to look at Around the Sun closer and see the good things that are going on there.
MM: Well, It's not an immediately accessible record, Around the Sun. It does require a bit of patience. But if you listen to the R.E.M. Live CD [cover at left] from Dublin, you see that those songs are really good and powerful. They just weren't quite as fully realized on Around the Sun as they could've been.
ND: For a group that has been around for as long as R.E.M. has, you guys are really tech savvy. You guys have the Ninety Nights site, you let fans edit the "Supernatural Superserious" video, you released the album on iLike. Are those steps necessary for you guys as a major-label artist?
MM: Oh, I think they're even more necessary as a major-label artist. Technology can be a really cool thing for breaking down barriers between the band and the audience. And that's what we tried to use it for. It's good to feel that you have a hand in the fate of the band. It's fun to be collaborative. Anytime we can use this technology to get our music across, that's how it's best used.
ND: Kind of brings it back to that do-it-yourself ethic kind of around where you guys started almost.
MM: You know, in a way, it is. We provide some raw footage, you can make your own video with it. That's very D.I.Y. This is where music should go. I like the idea that technology, while being more advanced, can actually make things simpler.
ND: There's certainly much more of an immediacy between you and the audience like you were talking about.
MM: You need that because there's so much more stuff out there. There's so much more competition for people's attention that it's much better to have new outlets to bring your music to the front.
ND: Do you think that that's part of what's affecting the music industry? The fact that there are so many things competing for people's attention?
MM: I think that's part of it, certainly. I love the fact that people used to have to wait with anticipation for their favorite LP to come out. Now that doesn't really exist anymore, which I think is sad. You can't miss what you never had, so it's not like kids are lamenting that loss. There is so much more competition for your attention. The computer brings the world into your living room, literally. At least, literally information-wise. And so therefore, yeah, you've got to be able to be a part of that world to catch anyone's attention.
ND: Certainly. And the computer is how I saw you guys on Stephen Colbert's show. (See that here.)
MM: Exactly. That's what I kept telling Warner Brothers. They were like, "Well, it only gets about 500,000 viewers a night." I said, "yes, but millions of people watch it the next day on YouTube. It's viral. It's a very viral show and believe me, it's going to make a big deal if we get on that show," and so we did that. We did "The Today Show," which is the traditional way of reaching millions of people, and then Colbert, which is the new way of reaching millions of people.
ND: It felt like watching your career between Up (cover at right) and Reveal — all the records since Bill Berry has left — that there's a lot more media focus on you guys this time around. Is that because of the nature of Accelerate or is it just an excitement to see, "OK, what are these guys gonna do next?"
MM: It's an interesting combination, I think, of the buzz about Accelerate, the fact that … I don't know. It's kind of hip to like R.E.M. again. [laughs] Who knows what the gestalt of it is? But people were ready for us to rock again and we were ready to do the same.
ND: When you guys were on "The Colbert Report," Michael Stipe was the one to answer this question, but I'm curious to hear your reaction. When people call this your comeback album, what do you feel about that?
MM: Oh, I think that's horses***. Pardon my phrase.
ND: Oh, I've used that word myself.
MM: [laughs] We've never gone anywhere, so we can't really come back. People say this is a return to form. It's not a return to anything. This is R.E.M. in 2008. This is who we are and this is what we sound like. I wouldn't know how to go back to the eighties and I wouldn't want to even if I could.
ND: Some of the fashion was a little …
MM: Let's leave that completely out of it! [laughs]
ND: It was interesting to me that The Edge was one of the proponents of you guys working with Jacknife Lee and kind of heading in this harder rock direction and I thought there was a real parallel because U2 is a band that experimented and tried some different things and then, with All That You Can't Leave Behind, the reaction was that they had gone back to where they had gone before.
MM: Well, I can't speak for U2, I don't know what was in their heads when they were making that record.
ND: Right.
MM: But I know that their goal, their drive is to be the biggest band in the world. And that's not the same drive we have.
ND: Would you guys would rather make a great record and have people not notice it as much?
MM: You know, you would love to sell 10 million copies of every record you make. But that is, hopefully, the result of making a great record, so for us, yeah, the being big might be a nice bi-product of doing great work but it might not.
ND: Did you notice that affection disappearing in the States, especially with the way Around the Sun sold compared to 10 years before that, when you guys were everywhere — you talked about being hip, if you didn't like R.E.M. then, you were a square.
MM: Right. Those are forces that we can't control, so we don't really worry about that. It's nice to be popular, of course, but all you can do it do good work and your place in the world is up to the world to ascertain.
ND: With as long as you guys have been around, what do you have left to prove?
MM: You know, it's never really been about proving anything. It's just making great music. We want to prove to ourselves that we can make every record better than the last one. I mean, that's our goal. But it's a very abstract concept and all you can do it the best work possible at any given time.
ND: That's really difficult to measure because you're always your own worst critic, right?
MM: Exactly. If we please ourselves then I think that's good enough for us.
All images courtesy of Warner Bros.